|
|
Post by Niluial on Dec 5, 2003 13:41:08 GMT -5
Ok my view is that GOD DOES NOT EXCIST You cant force me to believe in him, no tests will help, no prayers, I have been there done that! And if God does exist then he is one lousy God! Maybe I am being harsh, maybe God does exist but not the way all you religious people think! I am so sick of hearing God is amazing and our saviour and will lead us through dark times… damn lead us? LEAD US? More like leave us in the dark…
Look I am not only criticizing Christians I am saying ALL religions suck!
Look the Islam read the Koran and believe in Allah. What is wrong with Islam? No matter what you do or how hard you try you have a chance of going to hell its almost depending on Allah’s mood. That sucks!
Then we have the Hindus who worship Krishna. Their Bibles are Bhagavod Ghita (something like that), Uparishad, Veda, Mantras… What is wrong with the Hindus? All the Bibles contradict each other it’s a whole lot of mish mash shoved together. That sucks!
Then we have Christians who worship God (Yahweh) and they read the Bible. They threw out Bibles… HELLO? Why the hell would someone do that… now you guys will never know if there was important stuff in there! Who just throws out books? Also its like a weird faerie tale and half the miracles can be explained!
So there is what I believe what I say… Like it don’t like it you cant change my view! So believe what you want, be close minded what ever! We have views you have views. We believe God doesn’t exist and that religion sucks!
~Nilly
P.S. Sorry if that was harsh and silly and sorry I said suck so much but I had to let that all out and just tell you what I think…
|
|
|
|
Post by Lossentilien on Dec 5, 2003 14:35:17 GMT -5
Whoa you guys, calm down. Do you really feel there's tension here? I don't feel like that at all, I love hearing the opposite views from the christians and athiests. I don't feel any different towards Firi and Elbereth, if anything, I appreciate them more because they've participated. I don't think this is getting ugly at all! It's amazing, I'm really glad we've all got such different ideas, and would like to point out that none of the criticisms made have been about individual people, but about general religion. Do you really feel tension? Cause if you do I'll close this topic in a heartbeat, I just haven't noticed or felt any tension...
Erm, science explained this with the big band and evolution...or do you mean something else? I'm not quite sure what you meant there, cause (I think it was) Helky said science has explained these mysteries, and big bang etc was science's explanation. Haven't you read anything about Darwin?
I think perhaps that people are taking the points made here a little personally, for example, it was said that people who didn't believe in God would go to Hell, now, I could take this incerdibly personally, but I don't. Why don't I? Because it doesn't matter to me. I believe what I believe, and you believe what you believe. That's all there is. I have my own ideas, and would never say that belief in God is wrong. In many ways I think it's right, it's just religion as a whole I have problems with.
Like Nilly, I feel like I was abadoned by any God. I used to believe, I used to go to church, but I got the distinct impression that I was wasting my time, and that either God didn't care/have time, or that there was no God. And I would never say that God doesn't exsist.
The other thing is, those of you who are religious, please don't get mad at us for not holding the same beliefs, if you think about it, we're all going to Hell as far as you may or may not believe. ;D Nah, seriously though, you have your love for your God, and that's more important than wither the rest of us believe or not. You believe it, and that's what's really important for you. So what if other people don't, we all have the right to believe what we will.
I will make a little arguement for the sake of Socrates though.
Socrates did not want to instruct people. He gave the impression of someone who very much desired to learn from those he spoke to. So instead of lecturing, he discussed.
Are we here to discuss, or are we arguing and telling people what they should believe? I personally thought we were only discussing. But if you have problems, say so.
"...Wisest is she who knows she does not know..."
|
|
|
|
Post by ElberethVarda on Dec 5, 2003 15:11:59 GMT -5
Sure you have a right to belive what you want. But the reason Firi and I are arguing (discussing  ) is because we care about you guys. We want you to be able to see you after death; to know that you aren't lost. If what I belived was only important to me, we wouldn't be doing this. |
|
|
|
Post by GaladrielOlden on Dec 5, 2003 15:18:29 GMT -5
Thing is, you talk about it like we (actually, I; I can't speak for anybody else) have nothing to believe in at all, and are just here to be "saved" or whatever. And the thing is, atheism is almost like a religion to me, and I'm not going to be "converted" until I decide so myself, which certainly won't be because of a discussion I see on my computer screen. Or maybe, cross out the almost in "almost like a religion". It is like a religion. It's as important to me as Judaism was when I was religious; probably more so. And I think it's a little sad that you simply can't acknowledge that.
-Menelien
|
|
|
|
Post by Niluial on Dec 5, 2003 15:29:37 GMT -5
But how do you know that you are going to heaven? IS THERE A HEAVEN? Prove it! We don’t think there is a heaven or hell you just die and that’s it. So we aren’t going to go oh ok see you on the other side. Didn’t you read my last post? To me the Christian religion is crap! Its rubbish and I don’t believe a word it says[/u]. The day you can prove the Bible is true and that the miracles are miracles is the day I convert (which I doubt will happen). You guys keep telling us that there is a God and heaven and all but you can’t answer our questions with facts not your religion facts that might not be true but FACTS! We need facts!
~Nilly
|
|
|
|
Post by GaladrielOlden on Dec 5, 2003 15:38:03 GMT -5
Nilly, hon, I feel a lot like you, but I think you're goint to get the debate a bit too heated and personal if you keep using that amount of bold and capital letters. -Menelien |
|
|
|
Post by Lossentilien on Dec 5, 2003 15:40:02 GMT -5
I realise you're here cause you care, and I thank you for it, I love that you care enough to argue (discuss ) it here with us. It's just that what some of us are saying is that we simply don't believe the same as you, and if we have to be punished for choosing what we believe, do we really want to show support for a God who would do that? I think that even if there was a Heaven or Hell, I'd prefer to live my life with my own decisions and choices, even if that means being stuck in Hell. Purely because a God who would send people to Hell simply for not believing doesn't seem like a good merciful God. If he were, it wouldn't matter, it would only matter that you'd done what you thought was right and hadn't gone out of your way to destroy anyone else. I'd have to say, that in my opinion the whole purpose of life is to love and to learn and to try to understand. If you do these things, and live the 'best' of lives you can, but still don't believe in God, would you go to Hell? What about children? Babies? They don't have the capacity to choose what they believe, so what happens to them? |
|
|
|
Post by Niluial on Dec 5, 2003 15:47:14 GMT -5
You know what I am not posting here anymore… I am getting wayyy to worked up. You guys can debate and I’ll just sit back and relax. I normally don’t get so worked up but I am having a bad day… I’ll post once calm down.
~Nilly
|
|
|
|
Post by Firondoiel on Dec 5, 2003 17:16:35 GMT -5
|
|
|
|
Post by GaladrielOlden on Dec 5, 2003 18:18:20 GMT -5
Those were fascinating, and I have to say, I thoroughly enjoyed reading them. However, it doesn't do anything but make religion more interesting to me. You know, interesting the way a book might be interesting. I'm still a "believer in atheism," but...  -Menelien |
|
|
|
Post by Niluial on Dec 6, 2003 3:25:07 GMT -5
Yes I agree very intresting but I still dont believe there is a God or a God the way you guys see it. Oh well...
~Nilly
|
|
|
|
Post by Helkahihohe on Dec 7, 2003 15:29:14 GMT -5
Hm, You know what? there is only one god, and that god is me. LOL  Who cares if we go to hell or to heaven, I will just live my life and do whatever the hell I want (if possible) Many people hope that there is something more afther dead, I do to, but I don't have a clue what. Now I can choose to choose for a religion, or I just wait and see. I'm one of those really dutch people and "my" people kinda go by the term "believe it when I see it." So I'll just see if someone believes. Thank you and good night! ~Helka |
|
|
|
Post by Dragoneyes on Jan 10, 2004 7:31:45 GMT -5
I fully agree with Helka here. I'm too busy fretting over my life to think and fret over my death. If there's othing after then I obviously couldn't care because I'd be deaad and gone. If there was hell, at least I'd be there with the rest of my family. If there was heaven, then yay! If it was reincarnation, then I'd just go on living.
I'll jump that hurdle when I come to it.
|
|
Inwe
Meldielto
Posts: 6
|
Post by Inwe on Apr 9, 2004 22:21:27 GMT -5
I think all these punishments are just, exept the eating of toads & stuff... I mean some people like that kind of thing, I think they should be forced to eat like... boiling water or slugs... OR LEECHES!! Ewww... sorry lol
Also Gluttony is not only for food as far as I can tell, you can have a gluttony for a lot of other things as well.
|
|
|
|
Post by Cenerue on Sept 20, 2004 9:48:00 GMT -5
I have to agree with ElberethVarda, but I'd like to try and answer some of Lossen's questions.
There is a verse in the Bible that says that:
The man without the Spirit does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him, and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually discerned.
so it's very natural for those who don't know God to think that the Bible is "foolish". Remember that God's ways aren't our ways, and His thoughts aren't ours. God's thoughts and ways are WAY above ours, or He wouldn't be God. So we are not going to understand everything- there's just no way. That's why we must have the "unwavering faith". He have to believe that God knows what's best for us. And if you believe that and trust in God- He will never let you down! It's happened in my life time and again! He's never let me down yet! God is real, and He is holy! He wants people to search him out. The Bible says:
If you seek him, he will be found by you; but if you forsake him, he will reject you forever.
|
|
Who cares if we go to hell or to heaven, I will just live my life and do whatever the hell I want (if possible) Many people hope that there is something more afther dead, I do to, but I don't have a clue what. Now I can choose to choose for a religion, or I just wait and see. I'm one of those really dutch people and "my" people kinda go by the term "believe it when I see it." So I'll just see if someone believes.
