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Post by Istawen Aeros on Oct 20, 2004 17:17:14 GMT -5
Just to clear a few things up:
I too believe that it is good to die for right. I don't think that I discriminate when I say that something is bad, but oh well. You don't see it that way.
If God didn't create the world, then you wouldn't exist.
Utopia = Eden.
I'm afraid I don't follow your logic when you say that if God was perfect he wouldn't have created the world *confused look*
Yes, we are each too firm in our beliefs. I just hope you won't hold it against me.
Bent -- C.S Lewis used that word for sin in his Space Trilogy books.
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Post by Lossentilien on Oct 20, 2004 17:54:40 GMT -5
I don't know if I believe in God, I can see how people do, but I can also see how it's possible to believe just as rightly, in my opinion, that there was no God that created us, there are other answers. I know what Utopia is, it just doesn't matter or mean anything to me, even the idea of it. When I say God is perfect, I can explain this in detail if you wish, it's been argued a thousand times before. But to be perfect you wouldn't have needs or wants, to have created the world implies that God had a wish to do so, and this would make him 'human' in that he would have emotions. Humans are flawed because of their emotions. I still may not understand your beliefs, but I won't hold it agaisnt you, and hope you won't hold mine against me.  And I also get the use of the word 'bent' it just amused me cause of the way it's used to slag gays. I would actually love to discuss Descartes with you, but right now I don't have the time, so I'll post something tomorrow. ;D |
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Post by Istawen Aeros on Oct 20, 2004 18:32:40 GMT -5
Oooo I think we will disagree on what it means to be perfect too...
No, I don't hold your beliefs against you.
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Wren
Meldielto
Not all who wander are lost
Posts: 170
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Post by Wren on Oct 20, 2004 19:15:33 GMT -5
I would think for anyone searching for the truth it would take more faith not to believe in God for what is your alternative? That some unknown energy caused a big bang, and from their life evolved up to the point of man? That for me is a huge stretch of the imagination. It is so much easier for me to believe in a loving God who created us according to his plan. Keep in mind that when Christians share their faith, its only done out love for those around us. When you find something wonderful how can you not tell other people about it? Its like when you've read a good book or seen a good movie, and you want to tell someone about it so they can see it too. Although sharing with someone about Jesus has a far greater effect than that of a good book or movie. |
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Post by Istawen Aeros on Oct 20, 2004 20:21:30 GMT -5
Except that Lossie and many others don't think that our God is loving...I myself have difficulty with the concept of a loving God -- at the very least, His love is vastly different from the common meaning of love nowadays.
I do believe that He loves us though because of Christ...but...yeah. *shuts up now*
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Post by Dragoneyes on Nov 21, 2004 12:20:04 GMT -5
Perfection is a very strange thing and is truely not attainable, not while we are human in anyway shape or form. Whenever I think of perfection it seems to me to be incredibly boring but if it was it wouldn't be perfection. But this is only vaguely related to the topic.
I find the 'Loving God' thing quite hard to believe. It seems he only loves those that do as he says, which is a very odd love seeing as he created everything.
Not necessarily. I'm far more likely to go out of my way to find a book that someone's recommended to me.
To not think about how we came to be here at all because it's all in the past and ultimately doesn't matter, seeing as we're going forward, not backwards. As for the after-life, well if you've been straining to get into Heaven all your life, sacrificing everything you have, and then you find it doesn't actually exist you'd be a bit bummed. If there is a heaven and a hell, then I'm most likely going wherever my mum went and if there's nothing then there's nothing. It's very simple.
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Post by GaladrielOlden on Nov 26, 2004 16:51:35 GMT -5
Well, I'm an atheist, but I think the idea that he only loves those who do what he says to be odd - isn't it more like a parent, who truly loves their children, but punishes them when they do wrong? Except a bit more.. umm... drastic. Okay, I'm sort of playing devil's advocate here, but hey, somebody has to. -Menelien |
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Post by Dragoneyes on Nov 27, 2004 3:49:37 GMT -5
I thought we already had two sides of the argument. Well, we did until a little while ago.
The problem with God is he already knows who's going to go to heaven (being omnipotent). Does that mean he just gives up on the rest of us or does he keep trying even though he knows it's pointless. It's quite confusing.
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Post by GaladrielOlden on Nov 27, 2004 13:54:43 GMT -5
Well, when I WAS religious (which was.. some time ago, so I was a kid and maybe didn't get things right ) I never believed in the whole he-can-tell-the-future deal, I just thought it meant that He knew every person living so well that he knew vaguely what sort of choices they would make, thus deciding whether they'd go to heaven or hell, but never for sure. I dunno, I'm sure one of the people who actually is religious will be loads better than me at this. Devil's advocate is so not my thing. =P -Menelien |
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Post by Dragoneyes on Nov 27, 2004 18:00:39 GMT -5
Yes, this doesn't work so well when two atheists are debating it.
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Post by ElberethVarda on Feb 2, 2005 17:29:09 GMT -5
Okay, I'm a little late here...  Yes, it's just like that. But the thing is, God doesn't even have to do that. He owes us nothing- except death. But He loves us enough to kill His own son. Yeah, He does know. And He knows everything. Not just a shadowy, vague idea, but everything. He doesn't give up, I don't think. I don't really know, or understand that part too well. |
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Post by Dragoneyes on Feb 13, 2005 14:28:57 GMT -5
Ok, this is possibly more to start up conversation again than something directly related to the previous topic, but hey.
I honestly don't care if there is a God or not. He may still care, he may not. What I don't understand is why so many people believe we are indebted to him. If he's perfect but can't be bothered to create a perfect life for us (with NO catches, otherwise it isn't perfect) then why the hell should we thank him? Or if he's not perfect, then why is what he's done any better than animal testing? That's what happened, he was testing out life.
This might just be because my life completely sucks for reasons out of my control and why I only thank the people who are a part of my life for making it the way it is.
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