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[Istawen Aeros]

I don't understand your view as you said.

And, as I've said before, God lifted the ban on the foods.

[Wren]

Istawen put it quite clearly sin is something that hurts God. It separates us from God. But Lossentilien has a point too. Sin does harm others even if its just yourself. And since we are talking about the sin of homosexuality, it is therefore harmful. Somdomy is against God's design. Our bodies were not meant for this sort of thing. Here's one very good reason why this practice is not healthy: feces.

[Dragoneyes]

That's not a reason, that's a noun.

I'd understand the argument if you were going to eat the feces or not wash after but really, that's not much of a reason, especially as it only applies to men.

[Wren]

Heh, sorry. I thought it was sorta obvious.

Poop has germs, and those germs can get into the bloodstream. The rectum is not designed for sex. It will tear and bleed, allowing germs to enter the body. It really is an unhealthy practice.

God had a wonderful design when he created us. He made man to fit perfectly with the woman. The result of this beautiful union is children. Anything else is a perversion of his design.

[Lazy Dragoneyes]

I see your point a little more now but it still only applies to men.

[Lossentilien]

Point made, but kinda countered by all the STDs you can get from hetero sex (not insluding children! Hahaha...why are you guys not laughing?... ) obviously from gay sex too, but I'm just saying they balance each other out. Plus why else were condoms invented?
And I was also wondering, if God if offended by the act of gay sex, is it just the fact that it's gay, or is he just as offended by all the millions of striaght couples that do it? Cause I had a conversation with this girl at uni, being perfectly serious, and her reaction to it was pretty much-
"So...God is offended if a man does another man up the arse?"
"Yeah..."
"o...k...Why?"
"..."

Oh, and my point about mentioning the shellfish/food ban again, was that you'd said

Homosexuality is a sin. Just because the Bible was written over a thousand years ago doesn't change that. God does not change.

Which made it sound like the rules of the bible can't be changed, so I was confused over why if most of society if fine with homosexuals, why would this law stay the same? (Unless there is in fact no God to change what is written in the bible . Sorry, couldn't resist... )

[ElberethVarda]

It says in the Bible that God is against homosexuality. And in the Bible God says, "Do not call anything unclean which the Lord has made." So there ye go. If God had wanted homosexuality, He would have desgned us for it. ;D I'm not sure exactly what verse, and I have to go to drama like right now, so, I'll find it first chance I get.

[Wren]

Lossentillien,

I see your point. I believe that it would apply to women as well. I think someone's already mentioned the verse in the Bible talking about women and the unnatural use of their bodies. (seems like this could apply to sodom whether its men or women).

When Jesus came into this world to save it from sin, he gave us a new law. He said to love each other even as he loves us. He also had something to say about sin. It is more than just the act, its the state of the heart.

[Lossentilien]

But surely we are designed for it if it's possible to do?? I mean, how can we not be if it's possible? We're not designed to fly, ergo we don't, excluding manmade ways.
As for the sin being a state of the heart, I like this idea, but I'm not sure where you meant it to stand in terms of the gay arguement...
Oh, I had another point I meant to make in my other post; sex - beautiful?? Huuuuh?

[ElberethVarda]

Yes-in the words of one of my friends, sex is "a beautiful expression between man and wife of their love for each other." Just read The Song of Solomon; that's all that it's about, almost. ;D

[Wren]

If only God can see into our hearts, than I cannot honestly say how the homosexual sins. But I would hazard a guess that it would be the same for anyone.

Pride, lust, worshipping other Gods, etc.

I think for alot of people pride is main sin that separates them from God. People think they can live their own lives without answering to God. They think they are good enough and don't need God, or even that they are more powerful than God.

While we are not more powerful than God, we do have our own powers (gifts from God himself if you will): free will, and the gift of faith.

[Lossentilien]

Thank you Wren, that was well put.

As for sex being beautiful, I doubt that this would be a sensible discussion, but I've yet to meet anyone who has had experiance with it who would ever describe it as beautiful, but hey, each to their own I guess, you may be one of few. Although personally I think it's anything but beautiful.

[Wren]

lol of course that's the ideal. And we are only human.

But it is pretty amazing when you think about it. The Bible tells us that two shall become one. This doesn't just mean fitting together like a puzzle piece. Its being forever joined to the other person, as though even your spirits are meshing together.

I heard once that husbands and wives sometimes make the best organ donors because of the physical changes that take place in each others bodies. Its is if they had the the same body. Granted this doesn't happen in every marriage but the article said that in marriages where the couples are very close this has been known to happen.

Kind of gives romance a whole other picture. I think that is beautiful.

[Elentari]

My mum found a verse in the Bible about homosexuality. I don't think anyone's quoted it yet, but if they hae, feel free to bite my head off

1 Corinthians 6:9b-10 ^9bNeither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor male prostitutes nor homosexual offenders ¹⁰not thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God.

It then goes onto to explain in verse 11 that if you leave your old ways behind (ie the ones listed above) and follow Christ, you will be forgiven and go to heaven. However, you must give up the old ways, or you cannot truly follow Christ because those things hurt Him and distance you from Him.

[/i]¹¹And that is waht some of you were. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God.[/i][/quote]


There is another argument against homosexuality that I have recently learned in Ethics. The Christian philosopher Aquinas came up with a moral system called Natural Law. Within this there are 6 Primary Precepts based on the teachings of the Bible. They are thus:

• preserve the self
  
• preserve the innocent
  
• aquire knowledge
  
• live in an ordered society
  
• reproduce
  
• worship God
  

The precept "reproduce" is very important in the argument against homosexuality. The Bible teaches that sex is not supposed to be something that you do with anyone you like, but that it should be kept within marriage (the whole One Flesh argument there). The Bible also says "go forth and multiply". This can be interperated to mean that sex is for reproduction. Fundamentalist Christians such as Aquinas argue that this means sex is only for reproduction, therefore contraception can't be used, as that is stopping reproduction. Nor is oral sex allowed because it cannot lead to reproduction (the argument was put forward in class the if the man, and I quote the guy who said it, "needs help getting it up" then oral sex is allowed because they couple will then have sex which will lead to reproduction.

But anyway, I'm babbling. My point is, that according to Aquinas' Natural Law, homosexuality is forbidden because gay sex cannot result in reproduction.

| tari

[Lossentilien]

I'll reply sensibly later, but for right now all I have to say is;
Screw this, I'm going gay. And shall be having words with 'God' from where ever I end up, and I'm starting to hope that it'll be hell.