BibleBelievers.com

[Istawen Aeros]

Actually, it was the homosexuals that first contracted AIDs and then gave their blood to hetrosexuals, thus putting the virus into the hetrosexual genes.

As for abortion: to me, a human baby is a human baby, whether it's in the womb or not. If I were to fall pregnant I would hope I would not abort it, but set it up for adoption.

Yes, it maybe unwanted, but I can't help but think that if I was unwanted (which I am not) that I'd rather be alive than dead. Yes, I would never want to bring children in this world, but I could never kill him/her because that baby (fetus, zygote, whatever) is now alive inside of me and I would never forgive myself.

I have heard of women who had abortions, and they regret it. They celebrate the day their child would (maybe) have been born.

Also, I think when you fall pregnant it's a different story. All of a sudden it is your baby (unwanted maybe, but a bab y nonetheless). Currently, we as teens usually, seem to view a baby as an it that makes a woman fat.

[Lossentilien]

Sorry Imzy, but you don't know what you're talking about. HIV and AIDS didn't start out with homosexuals as they were not the first to contract the virus. It wasn't even spead by them. If you had read any of the medical reports you would know that it started in monkeys, although in animal form it's called SIV. I suggest you read the medical information before making statements like that. Here's some basic stuff, but if you want in depth readings I'll be happy to oblige.

www.avert.org/origins.htm

However, in trying to identify where AIDS originated, there is a danger that people may try and use the debate to attribute blame for the disease to particular groups of individuals or certain lifestyles.

www.avert.org/hsexu3.htm
Not to offend anyone, but this is a very valid point, in general, I'm not throwing accusations. But this is the bit I meant for you to read, I just thought I should give the source-

Attitudes to gay men and HIV

Although people often grow up exposed to more or less the same beliefs about sexuality, they can hold quite different attitudes in their adult lives. While some people believe homosexuality is a valid lifestyle, others violently object. Some people believe that homosexuality is unnatural, others see it as a sin and have said that for gay men 'AIDS is a plague sent from God'.

At the beginning of the AIDS epidemic, gay men were frequently singled out for abuse as they were deemed to be responsible for the cause and spread of the virus. Sensational reporting in the press became progressively anti-gay and did little to help the situation. One prominent gay activist was attacked outside a London subway by a gang of knife-wielding youths who suggested that he should be killed before he could spread 'the gay plague' to others.

What causes people to be prejudiced against gay men and lesbians?

There are probably no simple causes of homophobia. While there is probably no single thing which causes a person to be homophobic, research has shown that prejudice towards gay people and homosexuality can be influenced by the person:

Reporting no homosexual experiences or feelings.
Being negative about types of sexual behaviour and relationships which are neither procreative nor take place within marriage.
Having a lower educational and social status, for example the lower a person's level of educational attainment and social class the more negative their attitudes are towards homosexuality.
Having and adhering to strong religious beliefs which disapprove of sex and/or homosexuality.
Having little/no social contact with lesbian and gay people.

[Wren]

Of course you are right it started with monkeys, Lossentilien. But having sex with monkeys is a sin too.

And just so you know, I am not racially prejudice against monkeys. I just think we shouldn't have sex with them. ;D

[GaladrielOlden]

I was just about to find a link for that, thanks Lossie. And now that you say it... how did it get passed on to humans anyway? Did someone have sex with a monkey? Or just shared other bodily fluids somehow? (Maybe he shared a toothbrush with a monkey. )

-Menelien

[Wren]

Lol They suggested that someone ate the sick monkey, but it was just a guess. There were no witnessess.

Here's another link for more info on aids. old.valleyadvocate.com/hiv-aids/a960530.html

[Lossentilien]

Is it a sin to have sex with a monkey? It'd be a little worrying if that was a specific sin.

Here are a couple of interesting articles about how SIV was passed on and developed into HIV in humans, I preferred the first one, but take a look for yourselves-

news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/2983092.stm

www.cnn.com/2003/HEALTH/conditions/06/13/monkeys.aid/

A lot of people think that all that nonsense about homosexuals spreading the disease to heterosexuals was pure propaganda by certain fundamentalists, which to me doesn't seem that far off.

[GaladrielOlden]

Well, it's a sin to have sex with an animal, I'm pretty sure of that from all my torah study clases. =P Thanks for the links. *reading them*

-Menelien

[Ophelia]

It is a sin . I read somewhere or heard it in the church . I don`t remember .

Oph

[GaladrielOlden]

GaladrielOlden said:

Well, it's a sin to have sex with an animal, I'm pretty sure of that from all my torah study clases. =P Thanks for the links. *reading them*

-Menelien

To add to that, I believe there were three forms of sex mentioned as sins... homosexual sex, beastiality, and... one more... adultery I believe. Or maybe rape. One of those.

-Menelien

[Wren]

Heh, forgot one: sex with dead bodies.

The truth is nobody really knows for sure where aids came from. Its still anybody's best guess. We do know that sin has its price.

In fact the reason God put rules in the Bible is to our benefit and protection. It was purely a kindness.

[Niluial]

There was an incident in South Africa where a group of boys had sex with dogs. Rumor had it that someone had sex with a chicken but I think that’s unlikely. All in all it seems pretty gross if you ask me.

[Lossentilien]

*sigh* If we really must talk about sex with animals I'd be happy to start a topic about zoophiles, just please don't type animal sex into a search, I dread to think what you'd end up with instead of information.

As for the statement that nobody really knows for sure where aids came from, they do know. It's all explained above. And they are almost completely certain how it was transferred to humans. Therefore I will now be taking official offense to anyone who blames homosexuals, as this is a pure nonsense. I can see how you got the idea into your head, but there is scientific evidence that this is not the case. It's propaganda.
You could just as easily say black people are not as intelligent as white people. It's that unjust and prejudiced. God should be ashamed if this is his rule. If this is sin. I know that if God really thinks homosexuality is a sin, then I am ashamed of God. It's despicable.
You may think that comparing this to ethnicity is going too far, but if you know anything about Robert Yerkes, you'll know just how stupid people can be in their prejudices.

[Wren]

Here's a quote from: www.virusmyth.net/aids/award.htm

"It was Professor Max Essex of the Harvard University who first declared in the mid-1980s that the AIDS virus had jumped over to man from the "African green monkey". Yet years later, it was proved that "the first AIDS-like viruses in monkeys had been found by Max Essex in macaques, a monkey species primarily from Southeast Asia, not Africa", New African reported in 1990.

Max Essex himself, shamed by his false theory, recanted years later and admitted that the HIV virus and the monkey virus were so different from each other that none of them "could have been the ancestor of the other in a historical past"."

And another link reguarding aides and God's views:
www.virusmyth.net/aids/award.htm

I don't really understand why people defend the act of sodomy. That is just as evil as incest. People who commit incest go to jail, they aren't given special priveleges. I can care about my friends who are gay, but I cannot say that being gay is ok. Because according to the Bible it is clearly not. The Bible was so important to our founding fathers. They came here seeking freedom from religious persecution. Things have greatly changed, and not necessarily for the better.

[Lossentilien]

Are you that blind? Seriously, do you know what year this is? We should be past all this homophobic nonsense. It's absolutely sickening. Whatever happened to judge not? You cannot claim to be friends with gay people if you view them like that.

www.theturning.org/folder/samesex.html


I find this truly disgusting, you claim to be a Christian and yet you act no better than a common bigot. I can't speak for others, but to me, you are demonstrating one of the few things that is severely wrong with the world.

It also interests me that my mother has been working in the medical services since she was about 18, and is currently working in a medical university, has a number of qualifications up to masters level and knows an astounding amount on HIV and AIDS, yet seems to be pretty adament that HIV and SIV, although different, are far too similar not to be directly related....How odd...
I mean, you'd think, Max Essex, a professor at Harvard no less, would at the very least have thought to check to see if the two were related...
Oh how I love sarcasm, I feel so witty. There I go again.

You seem fond of saying that God condemned homosexuality. It says so in the Bible doesn't it? Yet I was told the only reference that can definitely be linked to homosexuality is found in Leviticus. The section where God also condemns eating shellfish...

Yet the Christian Church goes to great lengths to claim that homosexuality is unnatural and a sin against God.

Animals engage in homosexual, bisexual and heterosexual activities ... it is natural for other species, why is it unnatural for homosapiens?

The Church has been spreading this hateful doctrine for some 2,000 years, poisoning the minds of generation after generation of adherents. Although someone is not religious, or not a Christian, doesn't mean that they weren't exposed to the ideas of Christian doctrine, the bigotry of church dogma, when they were formulating their own opinions on the topic. Most prejudices come from our parents and their parents. If someone in that chain bought into the hatred espoused by the church fathers, that non-religious person will carry some level of the ideology themselves.

I seriously hope there is no hell. And I don't mean in terms of these evil gays.

[Niluial]

HEAR HEAR!

I would like to add to Lossie’s post but, I fear I shall repeat myself, I didn’t disagree to one thing on there.

“You seem fond of saying that God condemned homosexuality. It says so in the Bible doesn't it? Yet I was told the only reference that can definitely be linked to homosexuality is found in Leviticus. The section where God also condemns eating shellfish...”

What is it with you guys? Jesus didn't say anything about it, and neither did god, but people interpret it the wrong way cause they're looking for fault instead of human attributes.

And why does everyone get so judgy? I can’t take it. Christians say “don’t judge” or “don’t point fingers.” All the religions are like, we are right, we are right.… who the hell gave you permission and the right to say we are the right way, anyway? My grandfather is a Pastor, so don’t think I haven’t been brought up in a Christian family, or been taught Christian values. No one can ever answer the questions I have about Christianity. I just don’t think you have the right to say homosexuals are wrong and are going to hell.

All in all it is very hypocritical to judge homosexuals! How would you feel if you chose a certain way to live and then have the Christians and other people call you sick, evil and twisted for going with your feelings and wanting to go ahead with your life, the way you wish to live it!