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Post by ElberethVarda on Oct 26, 2003 19:29:41 GMT -5
Everyone is entitled to their opinion, but there's no reason I can't argue, is there?  Yes, bad things happen. And why shouldn't they? I can think of no reason for God to be kind to us. Compared to Him, our good works are like dirty, torn rags. God is perfect, and no one can measure up to His standards. Yet still, He loves us. He cares about us. And that is why He gives us the gift of Salvation, a free gift to save us. Yes, there's pain in the world. Because of us, not God. The only reason it's not totally hopeless is because of Him. God has a plan for each and every of His children. The plan may include pain. It may include hurt. It may include death. But, in the end, it all works out to draw us close to Him. x"All things work together for the good of those who love God and are called according to his purpose." |
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Post by GaladrielOlden on Oct 26, 2003 20:48:27 GMT -5
See, I used to believe in that... but then I started feeling like it was unrealistic. I don't think it would be... well, I'm going to sound childish if I say fair here, so I'd better change the wording... it wouldn't be plausible, maybe. I completely respect the ideas of those who are religious, unless they are the "I WILL CONVERT YOU!" or "BURN IN HELL!" types, but feel like it's just not right for me.
-Menelien
Edit: Eleventy-one posts! ;D
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Post by Firondoiel on Oct 26, 2003 21:00:30 GMT -5
Well, I know I am not perfect and I have yet to meet the human who is. Let's face it,we are far from perfect. How can it not be fair that we cannot measure up to God, a perfect being?
Lossentilien, I am sorry for your disappointments when you were little and about you losing your faith. But I would like to say that God is an all knowing, perfect, being. It is not for us to decide if our requests are reasonable or not. God knows best. That doesn't mean we are going to like His response when we get it but we need to realize that He is doing what is best for us. I have asked God for things that were extremely important for me but they did not happen and I did not understand why. But I kept trusting God and things did work out eventually. It's not easy but I have to say it is definitely worth while.
I do not wish to preach at anyone. I am only stating my views and beliefs. I wish no offence to anyone.
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Post by GaladrielOlden on Oct 26, 2003 21:30:21 GMT -5
Right, I am NOT singling you out, but really... I hate that whole idea, the passive belief that whatever happens has a reason, and it's His will. I refuse to just take things as they come because some "higher being" wants them that way. Even when I was religious, I never thought of God as somebody who had a will on which depended the "fate" of the world. I only thought of him as some sort of kind and loving mentor. Isn't that the way he's portrayed in some parts of the Bible, at least?
-Menelien
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Post by Firondoiel on Oct 26, 2003 21:38:41 GMT -5
It is not that some "higher being" wants it that way. God has given us free will. He does not make us do what we do. It is up to us so how can it be that way just 'cause some "higher being" wants it? I said that when we ask Him for something He answers us in the way that He knows is best. But He is not leaning over your shoulder in control of everything you do. The only way He gives you guidance on how to live your life is when you ask him to.
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Post by ElberethVarda on Oct 26, 2003 21:54:23 GMT -5
Actually, the Bible never really states that we have a free will. We humans like to think we do, but it isn't really that way. I have a verse that says something about it, several, in fact.
Romans 9:15-18 "What shall we say then? That God is unjust? Not at all! For He says to Moses," I will have mercy on those on whom I will have mercy and I will have compassion on those on whom I will have compassion." It does not, therefore, depend on a man's desire or effort, but on God's mercy.
Jeremaiah 29:11 "For I know the plans I have for you," says the LORD. "They are plans for good and not for disaster, to give you a future and a hope.
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Post by Firondoiel on Oct 26, 2003 21:57:59 GMT -5
We have a choice whether or not to recieve Christ. God does not force Himself on anyone. He leave the decision up to you.
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Post by ElberethVarda on Oct 26, 2003 22:04:59 GMT -5
No, He dosen't force Himself on you, but chooses His followers, is what I'm sayin'.
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Post by Firondoiel on Oct 26, 2003 22:08:53 GMT -5
So, you're saying that He choses who can become a Christian and who can't? He had his chosen people B.C. but Christianity is open to anyone who will recieve it. It is not open to a certain few.
I definitely believe that God can control things for He is omnipotent, but He does come into your life unless you accept Him.
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Post by ElberethVarda on Oct 26, 2003 22:20:41 GMT -5
Yup, that's what I'm saying. That's the way I see the verse.
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Post by Firondoiel on Oct 26, 2003 22:23:45 GMT -5
Well then what is the point of some peoples lives if they are already lost when they are born? What is the point of them living if they are condemned already before they even have entered the world? God is not heartless, He loves every single person. What about John 3:16?
"For whosoever believes in Him shall not perish but have everlasting life."
And...
" But as many as recieved Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God to those who believe in His name." John 1:12
If only certain people can become Christians, why do we have church? Why do we have missionaries? Why did Jesus train his disciples to minister to people?
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Post by ElberethVarda on Oct 26, 2003 22:36:18 GMT -5
I honestly don't know why it's like that. But I think we have missionaries because that's God's way of getting to the ones who are going to be saved. But I don't know about the rest.
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Post by Firondoiel on Oct 26, 2003 22:45:47 GMT -5
What about the verses?
"For whosoever believes in Him shall not perish but have everlasting life."
And...
" But as many as recieved Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God to those who believe in His name." John 1:12
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Post by GaladrielOlden on Oct 27, 2003 6:50:21 GMT -5
*shrugs* I don't know, I just don't believe in it. But I really hate the idea that some people seem to have that if you do not become religious you will be condemned to forever burn in hell. (NOT referring to any of you.)
-Menelien
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Post by Firondoiel on Oct 27, 2003 10:45:33 GMT -5
I did some reading in my Bible last night and this is what I found...
In Romans 9, it is Paul writing of Israel's rejection of Christ and God's justice. Israel believed that since they were desendants of Abraham they were saved and they rejected Christ. God is saying that it is not on what man does that makes you saved but God's mercy of sending Jesus to die on the cross. I do not see how this verse says that God choses who can and who can't become a Christian. I believe that God knows what you will decide since he is all knowing, but he does not say to anyway "You cannot become a Christian." Jesus died for everyone but it is up to you whether or not to accept that.
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