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Post by Elentari on Sept 29, 2004 5:04:47 GMT -5
Phillip Pullman's Dark Materials was, I my opinion, a truly inspired trilogy that was beautifully written. But as you read the books, you realise that the trilogy is in fact extremely anti-Christian. Now I know that several of you here are Christians, so how did you react to the books. And everyone else too, what did you think? I'm a Christian, but I wasn't at all offended. My mum was completely against the trilogy, but I believe that she, and other Christians who were offended, were taking the book too much to heart. It was, after all, only fiction. | tari  |
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Post by Lossentilien on Oct 14, 2004 10:06:49 GMT -5
I actually loved the representaions in these books. (Bet you're all shocked  ) I loved the idea that God was simply the first one and pretended to have created it all. I can obviously see how this would offend people, but I also think it's really refreshing when people like Phillip Pullman and Anne Rice (Memnoch the Devil) portray God as a flawed being. I find it much more interesting than the idea of a perfect entity. |
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Post by GaladrielOlden on Oct 14, 2004 11:40:41 GMT -5
*agrees with Lossie* -Menelien |
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Wren
Meldielto
Not all who wander are lost
Posts: 170
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Post by Wren on Oct 16, 2004 20:43:01 GMT -5
I haven't yet read them, but I've heard they are really good. I plan on reading them someday, but right now I'm working on Robert Jordon's Wheel of Time series. This could take awhile since I'm only on the first book.
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Post by Tinaraviel on Nov 28, 2004 8:06:01 GMT -5
I loved His Dark Materials and I'm Catholic, I don't think God can be that perfect look at the garden of Eden. Why tell Adam and Eve not to eat the apple and expect them to listen to him, he new man was an imperfect creation and that they had no sense of right and wrong.
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Post by Dragoneyes on Nov 29, 2004 14:06:45 GMT -5
I dislike the "His Dark Materials" series, but that's solely because of the last book and its not-goodness. Phillip Pullman didn't help it at all by saying that LotR wasn't a good book on the basis that "you didn't learn anything about the human nature by reading it," either. When you can show me something that I've learnt from your books Mr. Pullman, then your argument may have some weight. (And what about Boromir? That's a study of human nature if ever I saw it! Not to mention Isildur, and the elves being a juxtaposition of the humans and the hobbits to show what would happen were just one aspect of human nature adjusted) Mr. Pullman is talking complete bollocks (excuse my French).
Now, seeing as my rant is only a very distant cousin of the actual topic, I shall stop.
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Post by GaladrielOlden on Nov 30, 2004 14:23:22 GMT -5
Hmm.. I loved the last book, even more than the first two. And what's wrong with having his own opinion of LotR? It may be shocking, but not liking LotR doesn't immediately make you a bad writer. I don't even see the connection. And you do learn a lot about people from his books, or at least, his characters, though I don't agree that you don't learn about human nature in LotR, too.
-Menelien
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Post by Dragoneyes on Nov 30, 2004 15:49:19 GMT -5
Of course not liking LotR doesn't make you a bad writer, do you really think I'm that narrow-minded?
I can't say the last book didn't interest me but it was very choppy and the ending was so monumentally disappointing (to the point that I actually considered not reading to the very end) that it's certainly not the best book I've ever read.
Just claiming that LotR was bad on the grounds of something that his own books do no better annoyed me rather.
That's my opinion, don't diss it.
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Post by GaladrielOlden on Dec 1, 2004 22:46:05 GMT -5
I wasn't dissing it, I was debating it. That's why this is a forum.
What didn't you like about the ending? I thought it was beautiful and I swear, I'd chop off my right hand to write like that... though, writing would be kind of difficult with only my left hand, I think. And I don't think he was criticizing LotR on the gorunds of his own books - it's kind of different. For example, the fact that I don't really like Dostoyevsky doesn't mean I think I could write half as well, or that I don't respect his literary genius.
-Menelien
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Post by Dragoneyes on Dec 2, 2004 11:01:06 GMT -5
I generally don't like romance so the ending really didn't interest me, I'm not critisising his style of writing, just the content. Well, I'm not even critisising that properly, just saying I don't like it.
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Post by GaladrielOlden on Dec 4, 2004 16:48:53 GMT -5
Ahh, I see now. =) Well, that I don't have a problem with, I was just wondering. I actually didn't like romance at all when I first read that, but still loved it. (Hell, I was like... ten..)
-Menelien
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Post by Ashael's Blaze on May 7, 2005 11:33:47 GMT -5
Of course it's more interesting, because we, as flawed human beings, can only relate to the idea of flawed divinity. But does that really matter if it's "interesting"? I am a Christian, and although I enjoyed Mr. Pullman's books a literary work, the ideas portrayed in these severely anti-Christian novels were repulsive to me. (Please note here that I have only actually read The Golden Compass. My knowledge of the other books is hear-say...)
In one respect, I can agree entirely with Lossentilien. A imperfect entity fits inside my head. I can understand the imperfect, while I can't understand why, if God truly loves his Creation, he would put the tree in the Garden at all. I've struggled with this so much; the conception doesn't fit inside my head. But does this make it okay to believe that God is imperfect? No Bible-believing Christian can say 'yes'. Know why? Because God tells us he is perfect. With Him, it's either the whole deal or nothing. You believe it all, or none of it. Sorry, guys, that's the way it works.
Elentari, please don't let novelists like Mr. Pullman screw around with your faith until you lose sight of the true image of God. I'm fourteen, and I really like the book. I am cheating myself of enjoyment by not reading them anymore. I could say, "Just cuz I read doesn't mean I believe it! It's just fantasy!" But when it comes right down to it, there is no way I can believe that God will be honored by my reading books that blaspheme him.
Sorry, Lyra. It's too much for me, or any Christian, to handle.
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Post by Elentari on May 16, 2005 15:34:41 GMT -5
Don't worry Ashael, I won't. Since I started this thread I've been bombarded with arguments against the existence of God in my philosophy lessons, yet my faith is stronger than it ever has been. I think I could re-read the first two books, but I don't think I could bring myself to read the third one again. If I did, I'd take the word "God" to mean "Bob" who created an idea and nothing more. Silly Phillip Pullman...
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Post by Ashael's Blaze on May 17, 2005 13:42:32 GMT -5
Yeah... <sheepish grin> Sorry, I didn't mean to rant at you... this kind of thing makes me upset, because it's something I struggle with myself. (But it's just a book! What harm could it possibly do?) I want to seperate my reading from God, from reality. But there is no seperation, really.
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Post by Elentari on May 17, 2005 14:07:44 GMT -5
Actually, reading can do a lot of harm. Without realising it people can read books and their opinion on things may change over time. In the end their entire beliefs and values could be changed irreversably. You have to be very careful reading such contraversial books. Ooo, long words  ; | tari |
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