Vampires

[BKnight]

Well, Oph, although I'm from Romainia, we don't have so many vampires here. As I've said, I would have love Romainia even more if it had more vampires (I think I would have made a perfect vampire hunter).

Anyway, the reason I'm posting this : I couldn't find anything more about Elizabeth de Bathory. Apparently, my grandma, who had the docs, made them unreacheable for me (sent them to the recycle bin). Nevertheless, I won't stop researching, only that it is going to take a little while more.

And, Oro, I have read about all that stuff in a romainian magazine, articles taken from Le Figaro, I think.

[Ophelia]

Well Latvia isn`t famous for having vampires too but still ...
Oah and take your time but do not forget to say the big public phuee to your granms

Ophelia

[BKnight]

Okay, I’ve been digging through my grandma’s magazines lately and guess what… I’ve found the papers regarding that Dracula woman: Erzebest de Bathory.
First of all, what is about to follow is really sick perverted stuff, so if you don’t want to know how sick can people be, skip it. Secondly, these things are real, the Bloody Countess really existed in Hungary and has done some really gross things. I won’t exaggerate the facts, I’ll relate them in the same way I’ve read them.
So, let’s make it happen, captain!
During 1604-1610 the countess de Bathory, aided by a convent of witches, who had sold their souls to the Devil, sacrificed 650 virgin girls. I think you can easily make out their goal: THE NUMBER formed with three 6. They were very close of achieving that goal when the authorities nicely stopped these actions. The witches were beheaded, but the dreaded countess, with the aid of a clever lawyer, managed to elude the axe. Nevertheless, she was blocked in, in one of her castle chambers. There, she died after four more years, without light and candle. Sad, right? (I’m ironic, of course)
Okay, let’s get to details. The greatest Romanian ruler from the Middle Ages, Mihai Viteazul (his name would roughly translate to Michael the Brave) lived in the same time with the countess. He was the first ruler who united our three provinces into one big country. Alas, this union lasted only several months, because, betrayed and overmatched, he was killed in 1601. Beheaded. (Yes, I know, I’m constructing the historical background) The important thing is: on the front of his woolen hat was 10 magic (!) stones, ten sapphires, I think. Maybe they were not magical, but it was believed that these jewels, if united, could vanquish evil. So, releasing the opportunity, de Bathory acted immediately. She send her pet-midget (the only man in her organization) to recover the jewels. The midget managed to get only two jewels, but still it was enough; because, the others had been sold, dispersed by thieves all over the world.
After this, de Bathory carried out her plan. To sacrifice 665+1 (I don’t want to write that number) virgin girls. What did she try to achieve by this we can only guess; I think she believed in opening a gate to Hell, or something. Others say that she was only crazy. The other witches acted like great madams, looking for maids. During these perilous times of poverty many girls applied. Only that they were never seen after. The most victims had between 14 and 25 years, it seems. Once the girls were in the service of the witches, they were brought to de Bathory’s castle. Here, they were put through a sick, twisted sacrificial process. First every hair (except the one of the scalp) was depilated carefully. Then, they were brought naked to sacrifice. After, de Bathory was arrested in her castle was found many torture instruments: Iron Maidens (this is some kind of sarcophagus, only that it has spikes inside. So, when the poor girl was put in, she was killed by impalement, of course, and every drop of blood collected in special reservoirs), needles, scythes, all kind of blades etc. The torture implied the cutting of one or both breasts, scarring certain areas of the body, strange markings made with a hot iron and peeling off the skin. Also, the countess used to “play” with them. During the short days of winter, when the temperature dropped below zero degrees, she ordered them, to be taken outside naked and sprayed with water. Of course, that the water froze on the skin, causing death by pain and by hypothermia. Mostly, by pain. Imagine, having one of those ice caskets on your naked body. Brrr…
It is said that the countess, like the Queen of Egypt (Cleopatra), was advised to bathe in virgin girl blood. The only difference rest in the fact that Cleo used to bathe in goat milk to keep her beauty; the countess bathed in blood.
So, you already know how these events end.
Ophelia, I think you’re satisfied now.
And girls, be very careful when you apply for a job.

[Ophelia]

As an A+ er at history I dare say that the time of Middle Age was the age of evil and threat and cruelty , for there was only a thin line between the position where people were and total chaoss . Especially there was a status of priority for the noble birth . Small limits did they have so it all depended on how mercyful and unevil were they . Unfortunatly this case was one of the cruel ones , as far as I see .
Yes - I am satisfied , though this is not the most horrifying , brutal , dispisable and shocking thing I`ve heard . But it most definetly is one of the before mentioned . Just remember - I`m hard to be shocked
Keep up the good job BK !

OphElia

[Dragoneyes]

I feel I must apologise for my absolutely rubbish knowlege of Europe's geography and historical geography, I know of nothing beyond Germany or further back than the first world war. This is just so you know that when I was talking about where people came from in my earlier post I had no frickin' idea and was, in fact, copying blindly.

That Elizabeth (or however you want to spell it) woman was one sick person! Perhaps that she died with a lack of light added to the whole vampire and sunlight thing... Interesting.

Well Latvia isn`t famous for having vampires

You try finding an English vampire, perhaps our upperlips are too stiff to have vampires.

[Ophelia]

Oah Dragon - feel not embaressed . I know people much worse at geography *nods

And it is very nice to see you so active in this section
Hope to see more of your thoughts aswell

OpheliA

[tobit]

to all who read of this know i only give truth to your itch. are there vamps, witchs and god like demons yes are they good or bad yes and no. the very last of our kind of which you seek are in hiding. i'll say are domain you call the u.s.a. We came here before your people and the people before you whose history will never be made public. but back to what you want to know we came here to start a new but unfortunetly man hunted us and burned us along the side of the wolf and what you call witch and warlock we called teachers a long,long time ago. as time goes on as it does with are kind we have our ways to survive i've watced for some time now i cant get over how many of so powerful yet so brian washed want a introduction but our kind has sufferd enough by the hand of man and thier ungodly creations so i leave with seek and ye shall find. T

[Ophelia]

o.O


I can bet I`m not the brightest person around here , but I had a bit of dificulty of understanding in what was meant to be told (could be the bad spelling and the lack of some words) but I think that`s not the main thing .
Gaaah , I`m too tierd to say any more and not quite sure that what I would say would be something too much of a nice so - who has eyes , may they see and read .

Oph

[Lossentilien]

The vampire myth actually goes back further than Bathory and Vlad, although I believe that the bones of these two were never found, it was thought that either they had never died, or that their bones had been removed by followers for spells or to be placed at some secret location.

It depends what you read, but there are tales of Lilith and of Cain both being vampires, although I don't think they were reffered to as such in the bible...As I know more about Lilith, here's a load of stuff for you to..uh...sink your teeth into. (Sorry...)


Some vampire lore has Lilith as either the first and oldest of the vampires, or at least their queen.

Ok, so according to some, Adam and Lilith were created at the same time, made almost equal, but Lilith, refusing to be subserviant to Adam (in other words refused to adopt the missionary position :S) fled the garden. (Here there are variations... )
Adam complained to God who then sent three angels, Sanvi, Sansanvi and Semangelaf, to bring Lilith back to Eden. Lilith rebuffed the angels by cursing them. While by the Red Sea Lilith became a lover to demons, ergo she gave birth to demon babies. The angels said that God would take these demon children away from her unless she returned to Adam. When she did not return, she was punished accordingly. Punishment for not returning to Eden was the murdering of 100 of her offspring on a daily basis. In retaliation, Lilith murdered human babies, usually boys younger than 8 days old and girls younger than 20 days old, and sometimes pregnant mothers.
It was after this 'mishap' with Lilith that God made the docile Eve out of Adams own rib.

What many people forget is that the "first eve" story of lilith first appeared in medieval times, in the controversial work known as the alphabet of Ben Sirah. although Lilith herself existed before the middle ages, all earlier descriptions of her were demonic. Lilith's true origins are obscure, but both her Sumerian and Babylonian predecessors were also all demonic. Lilith may be many things today, including but not limited to a goddess, a role model, and a demoness, but originally she was purely a demoness.
Even though most of the Lilith legend is derived from Jewish folklore, descriptions of the Lilith demon appear in Iranian, Babylonian, Mexican, Greek, Arab, English, German, Oriental and Native American legends. Also, she sometimes has been associated with legendary and mythological characters such as the Queen of Sheba and Helen of Troy. In medieval Europe she was proclaimed to be the wife, concubine or grandmother of Satan.

Here's a random story.

"The wife brought the mirror and all of the fine furnishings in the cellar to her own home and proudly displayed it. She hung the mirror in the room of their daughter, who was a dark-haired coquette. The girl glanced at herself in the mirror all the time, and in this way she was drawn into Lilith's web.... For that mirror had hung in the the den of demons, and a daughter of Lilith had made her home there. And when the mirror was taken from the haunted house, the demoness came with it. For every mirror is a gateway to the Other World and leads directly to Lilith's cave. That is the cave Lilith went to when she abandoned Adam and the Garden of Eden for all time, the cave where she sported with her demon lovers. From these unions multitudes of demons were born, who flocked from that cave and infiltrated the world. And when they want to return, they simply enter the nearest mirror. That is why it is said that Lilith makes her home in every mirror...
Now the daughter of Lilith who made her home in that mirror watched every movement of the girl who posed before it. She bided her time and one day she slipped out of the mirror and took possession of the girl, entering through her eyes. In this way she took control of her, stirring her desire at will.... So it happened that this young girl, driven by the evil wishes of Lilith's daughter, ran around with young men who lived in the same neighborhood."

From "Lilith's Cave," Lilith's Cave: Jewish tales of the supernatural, edited by Howard Schwartz

Other folktales describe of how Lilith captured Jewish babies in the night and ate them, and how she led young girls and young husbands astray. Although Lilith was demonized by early Jewish culture as a symbol of promiscuity and disobedience, many modern Jewish feminists see Lilith as a positive figure, a model of woman as equal to man in the creation story.

[Ophelia]

*mouth bangs against the floor in amazement*

Wooooow ! Loss , you apear (not to menion posting here) rarely . But when you do - it usually is something grand . Which is good , not to get me wrong
That sounds very intriguing , and if you have read my believings in what`s vampire beginning , you`ll know that I believed in this history going back to the Bible times , though a bit later ages . But your story gives things to think about .

Thanx for posting

Oph

[Lossentilien]

Ah but I'm not done yet...my dear Ophe. *evile grin* This is just the beginning. Ra ha ha.

When superstitions were at their height regarding all this mytholody and demonology etc etc, when people believed in vampires, a suspected vampire's coffin would be opened to reveal a decomposing body. Medical science obviously wasn't up to the standards of today, so people didn't understand the natural state of decomposition.

Upon opening a suspected vampire's coffin, what would they have seen?

After death, hair and nails continue to grow, meaning that upon opening a coffin people would see that the hair and nails of the corpse had grown, thus leading to the misconception that the body was in some form still 'living', that the body was that of the 'living dead'. Sometimes blood would be seen coming from the mouth; this led the people to believe that the vampire had fed the night before. On some occasions, scratch marks would be seen on the inside lid of the coffin where the supposed deceased had tried to claw his way out due to being buried alive. It was a not uncommon for living persons to be presumed dead, hence the whole string/bell conception that came about to stop people dying in this horrific manner.

It's quite amusing if you think that if they were to open every single coffin of a recently deceased person, they would have seen more or less the same thing. A world which would seem to be populated by vampires, an apocolapse maybe?
So now these people had so called evidence that the dead corpse was a vampire. Destruction of the vampire had to take place. A wooden stake would be used to stake the body to the coffin to stop it from rising.

Here it's important now to understand how the body decomposes. You might not want to read the next bit...

After one week, the skin will blacken and around the fourth day you will sometimes notice a great deal of liquid blood pouring from the lungs. This "bloody purge" probably gave rise to superstitions about vampires. About the fourth day post-mortem, the blood becomes liquefied and gas builds up in the body due to bacterial decomposition. So, when someone had died who was presumed to be a vampire, they would excavate the body and drive a wooden stake through the chest. Due to the gas produced by the decomposition and liquefaction of the blood, the body would spurt out blood and gasses would be released. Often when the gasses were released, the dead body would making a loud moan as the gas passed through the throat, and on some occurrences, the gas build up was so severe, that it could cause the dead body to rise up into a sitting position.

Food for thought.

[Ophelia]

Loss , you amaze me even more with every day
I had never though that far to confess . But now after reading what you know , I remembered old Latvian traditions . In the old days there was a belief that the evil persones who died , could come back from the grave to torture (no nothing closer was written) the living ones . So they believed that to avoid that hapening you had to cut the dead mans head off and stick a wooden stick through its chest .
Also , the cause of the dead siting up or moving could be the after death reflexes . That happens quite often .

Thanx for being active once again !

OpheliA

[BKnight]

Wow, Lossie! Walking encyclopedia vampire lore, girl you! I've never heard about that Lilith... Intriguing to say the least. I guess that you didn't hear also about the Book of Enoh, that was removed from the original Bible because it was a too concrete evidence of God's existence (so I've heard)
I am most certain that our prince Vlad is around here somewhere, buried in one of the many churches he made. For the last time, Dracula was a woman.
Now, seriously, heck, nobody could know for sure what went on back then. But from what I've read Vlad was cruel, but fair, not a vampire.
BTW, I liked the last fallen angel better. I have this thing against anime. Sometimes they are nice (i.e. yours), but most of the time they are hentai.

[Lossentilien]

I'm confused about this Dracula being a woman thing...is there something I've missed?
There's the book of Enoch, which is a detailed description of Heaven Hell and Sheol, but some people get a bit testy about it...

And as for the Anime, I'm kinda surprised you've not come across the regular stuff, it's like anything else, there are some weirdos, but most of it's fine. This pic is from a series called Chobits which was originally a comic (manga). Same with Battle Royale, started out as a manga series. I could go on to list all the fantastic anime and mangas I've seen or read, but this really isn't the place.

[BKnight]

Wow, you did hear about that missing book. Respect.
Well, scroll a bit up and find my gonzo post about Elizabeth and what she has done. And, as u have said that Lilith was a woman, vampire-demoniac sort. So, complete circle, right?